Just bought mine 2 weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles. The repair included replacing a cam sprocket, RH side timing chain tensioner and cam phasers. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. __________________________________________________________________. front mid section. Most, if not all, of these problems will illuminate the Check Engine light. In my experience, 2-3 rotations of the engine were enough to pre-lube my phasers and end the cold start rattle. Reinstall the frame (strut) brace (if equipped). Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site! Which BMW diesel engines have timing chain Problems? IF you feel ANY play then you likely have found your issue. Content on E46 Fanatics Forum is generated by its users. LOL. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. 35. Greetings. In sequence, loosen the camshaft holder bolts two turns at a time. Install the head cover gasket in the groove. Well if its under 50 degrees I hear that rattle behind the timing on first startup overnight for maybe 3 seconds then goes away no cel no performance issues. I doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do with this. Do you have to take the engine out to replace timing chain? Pre-oilers are generally only used for engine rebuilds to oil the top-end of the engine before starting. At least you have a mechanic you can trust, and the labor rates he charges you are about as good as it gets. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Cold Start Rattle - Your Timing Chain is stretched! Which BMW diesel engine is most reliable? Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I'm actually about to do another timing chain job on another srx this weekend. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Unfortunately, timing chains are much more expensive than timing belts, but the good news is that they shouldn't be replaced very often. A couple of things: So, what you need to do is to check the system and find out why the rattling sound appears. Once tted, with the actuator facing you, carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft locator pin. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Ours has 144,000 miles on it currently, and we are confident that we will take it to 190,000 miles in the next 3 years before we upgrade. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. . i can confirm the rattle on start up is "considered normal" by subaru for start up. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. 47. And then start the car normally. 11. It gradually goes away after the engine warms up to normal temp. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. I've scoured the forums and can't find hardly anyone that gets this like I do. Sure enough, the timing chain was actually loose. All Rights Reserved. How many miles does a BMW timing chain last? 49. The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". i just put it up there with the " add a quirk" list. Even if it still can be started, it will work roughly, go slowly, and burn a lot of fuel and oil. full of oil when engine is off. Forum Software Specific Help. Discard the actuator. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. No. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. If the tensioner fails and the chain becomes loose, the timing of the engine is thrown off. On start up timing chain will hit interior of engine valve cover and cause a rattle noise. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues. Would like to do that test myself. Without it, the engine will not run. Pulleys are New. Remedy: it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. . in the current automotive and consumer climate in america, that's certainly not the norm or to be expected, i think you're headed in the right direction to inquire with Subaru and see what happens. Wow does the truck run better! A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. Btw, could the rattle also come from a failed drain back valve in the OFH? Fuel pump and sensors were changed but the code re-appeared. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. +1 get a trained person with a stethoscope to listen for and identify the sound first. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. Tighten the timing chain tensioner to 55 ft.lbs. and have more faith than I doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know "Show Me!" 17. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. How long should an average timing chain last? We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. If the belt is already broken, the engine wont have enough compression to start. A cold air intake works by moving the engines air filter away from the engine, so that . If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. No CEL/MILs and the truck runs great. I want to know all of the problems. Do you hear a loud engine rattle that lasts about two seconds? The key thing is to not burn out your starter. Replaced: primary timing chain, secondary timing chains, exhaust and intake phasers, main timing chain tensioner, every gasket/o-ring/seal in the process following FordTechMakuloco's 4-Part Youtube videos. Im assuming its the hydraulic chain tensioner bleeding down and not keeping tension until it has oil pressure. First of all, you should make your mechanic check. Carolina Stone is the founder and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs. Today, we'll tell you how you can stop your timing chain from rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine. Hi there yes, a worn or stretched timing chain, weak timing chain tensioner, or worn timing chain guides can cause misfiring, cam timing problem codes, low power and generally poor running of the engine. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. GM has a monster problem with these motors. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. It rattles for about 2-3 seconds until the oil pressure builds and allows the tensioners to work properly and add necessary tension to the timing chain. Once you hear the engine timing chain rattling, you should immediately show the vehicle to a good specialist. I have a Feb 2018 built truck that was purchased in May with 3k mikes on it and I just received my tune email but Im hesitant about installing until I make sure my truck does not have an issue. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. I would bet the upside down oil filter does have an effect, though. But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older vehicles. not too worried about it but it is annoying. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. If the new VTC actuator is unlocked after installation on the camshaft, go to step 28. That doesnt sound good is normally what we say. Will thicker oil reduce timing chain noise? Install the camshaft holders. How did you confirm its the chain? The system of timing consists of a chain, some sprockets that hold and rotate this chain, a chain tensioner, often a water pump, and some bearings that help move the chain in the optimal direction. Before installing the new and unlocked VTC actuator onto the camshaft. I think that is the anti drain back valve which keeps the filter assy. Now, my engine is five years older than this, so we know that the cam phaser rattle isnt a new issue. Counting how many spark plugs you see on your engine will , The coupe has a better center of gravity and is slightly lower so with completely equal drivers it will slightly and I mean slightly out handle the sedan but with everyday drivers you will never , The main difference between tail lights and brake lights is that the former lights up as soon as the headlights are turned on, while the latter only engages upon stepping on the brake pedal. It would rattle everytime I start the engine after it was sitting for about 1 hour or so. 54. The chain may suddenly break at any moment. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. Feb 13, 2015. Accessory belt or pulley noise? wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. However, i will also hunt down the GM Service rep here on the board. User sixpack577 on the FordF150 forum has one of the best ideas Ive seen. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? A normal engine has a consistent and smooth sound that . Jun 19, 2019 OK., so this is only on cold start that I get this temporary rattle for about 3 seconds, then all sounds fine. It's not really damaging nor much of an "issue", just an annoyance. How to Stop Timing Chain Noise? You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. No. It opens when filter is removed to drain housing oil out. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. BMW issues a service bulletin for models powered by the N63 4.4 liter V8 engine. The om651 that is was in my sprinter used to rattle like crazy on start up until the tensioner started to work then it was fine. I'm suspecting it the timing chain that rattles, and am guessing it may be due to the timing chain tension-er? It may not display this or other websites correctly. If the cassettes (guides) are worn, there is no helping the situation without remove and replace of the timing set (R&R). It uses 0w-20 oil, so I believe it more to be a design issue maybe? Also, do not use an impact wrench to tighten the mounting bolt. Are you sure it is not something else? H6 OBW VDC, H6 OB Sedan, Tribeca, Lifted XT6. 32. if you wish to stay logged in. Check the valve cover gasket. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. BMW Petrol Engine Timing Chain Failure A range of BMW petrol engines in cars registered between 2001 to 2015 appear to have a design problem affecting the timing chain or tensioner. Is it safe to drive with a rattling timing chain? On the front of your motore you will find TWO allen head round "peep holes" You can pull those out and with a finger inside and towards the middle of the engine, feel the two plastic timing chain guides. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. 1 cylinder. 38. This issue has plagued Fords since 2012, so it is a common issue. 21B10 is a genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to the phasers. Timing chain noise is commonly most noticeable during cold startup of the vehicle when oil pressure and oil flow is at its lowest. FCPeuro has the best price. For a luxury model, the price of a replacement kit may cost over $4,000. Changing the oil and oil filter every 5,000 miles. The vehicle has had cold start rattle for a second or two since 50k mi. In the final step, torque all bolts in sequence to 12 Nm (8.7 lb-ft). How do I know if my BMW timing chain is bad? Many 0W16 oils have a new donut certification mark on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving. Any INPA access to verify Vanos is normal? You will need to replace the timing chain and guides if it has plastic guides. But in high-mileage vehicles replacing the chain is not always a good idea because other units and parts of the engine are going to die soon. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. May 7, 2021 I have a 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi on it. It offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be very reliable by many customers. 16. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). Reinstall the right front wheel (if removed). Do not force it on. Already took the Valve covers off and I don't have anymore sludge and My oil is perfect. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to TDC No. Does your 5.7 do this? 26. The best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is ensured by two possible units: a chain or a belt. In one brand, it can go about 100,000 miles while other manufacturers say that their chains are engineered to live as long as the engine lives - about 250,000 miles. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. Don't give up. When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . Lexus says this is normal. Tighten them two turns at a time, starting in the middle and working your way outward, following the sequence. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); How To Sell a Car: Safety Certification Ontario, Selling a Car Toronto: Curbsiding/Curbsiders, Selling a Car: Vehicle Ownership Registration Ontario. . Just asking because mine does the same rattling at remote startup and I can hear it when outside the truck. I took it into a local mechanic shop and they diagnosed the issue as a timing chain rattle. Before you install a DIY spring, I would recommend talking to your Ford dealership about TSB 20-2016 and seeing if they can implement a permanent fix for you. Check "Remember Me?" This should resolve the cold start rattle. 39. Anything I can do to save $8500 is worth it. Welcome Guest! On a cold start, there's very little oil on the chain and guide, mostly because your FA25 motors use terrible (ie thin) 20W oil and it drains off the parts quickly. Cover the pressure port No. Truck has 7700 miles on it now and going into the dealer this Sunday. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. Recommended Services. The BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20A and the BMW 320d 2.0 Diesel N47D20C engines have suffered a lot due to timing chain problems, and the ratio of these engines with the timing issue has been quite a lot. This problem becomes more pronounced on cold weather mornings when the oil is thicker and on high-mileage 3.5L EcoBoost engines. ~ The Cheshire Cat (, 2019 2.5i Limited Forester (hers) (4th Subie), 2014 Impreza Premium (mine)(#5). Intake: 0.21 0.25 mm (0.008 0.010 in), Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm (0.010 0.011 in). But we don't recommend this because we've seen some people having to deal with the consequences of this. The alternator produces an AC current that must be converted into DC current by way of a rectifier. Place the camshaft/VTC actuator assembly on a clean, padded workbench. Published, Your email address will not be published. 4. As long as it does not get worse over time. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. What happens when BMW timing chain breaks? 18. Ive owned a B6 S4 before and know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars. 51. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Required fields are marked *. If timing is off even for a little, the engine will not be able to work at its full power. The Harley folks know where to get it. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. This procedure does not require the complete removal of the cam chain and associated parts, so repair time is shorter. Adjust if needed. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? This site is too much fun to not be a supporter, Some of what I know comes from experience, some from reading or listening,-, Informal Lounge, Introductions, General Discussion, FWD DeVille 1985-2005, Fleetwood, and 60 Special. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. Used Car Toronto 2023. It developed a rattle, so we immediately pulled the valve cover. Hood Texas as far as a self employed mechanic imagine how many other mechanics and or shops have done. !This is not a sponsored video. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. There is something you can try which might ( or might not) work to fix a timing chain rattle on cold start. You are using an out of date browser. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. Replace the VTC actuator. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) So you will be holding the brake and the gas pedal at the same time. They asked me to come in the AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises. Your email address will not be published. I still think I might sell it after it's repaired. The system is not very complicated but it can fail, unfortunately. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. Mark the timing chain at the punch marks on the exhaust camshaft sprocket and actuator. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. When the engine starts, the chain is held in place by a ratchet mechanism that holds tension on the chain until you get oil pressure to the tensioner. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. 13. If the VTC actuator is locked following installation on the camshaft, go to step 25. I gave my VIN to my friend who is the engineer at GM Canada. Metal shavings in oil: The timing chain will wear out over time. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. What weight oil? 20. Oil level good I check out daily. How many hours does it take to replace a timing chain? Some engines rattle from cold for a about 5 or 6 seconds until the timing chain tensioner and/or hydraulic tappets get primed up as the oil pressure rises but you'd normally expect that on an old, worn engine. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Here's What You Can Do, Radiator Water Level Goes Down: Here are 5 Possible Reasons. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. So many of my readers are serious shoppers who are doing their research on the engine, especially the Ford Expedition. Your vehicles timing chain is a critical component. It was NOT the higher pitched rattle of the wastegates. The rattle happens immediately after the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds. N'T have anymore sludge and my oil is the magical cure, a lot of and. Failed drain back valve in the middle and working your way outward, following the.! You are about as good as it does not require the complete removal of the engine enough... And cam phasers need oil to the phasers spark plug wires are on both sides the. Have more faith than i doconsider me from Missouri right nowyou know `` Show me! of carolinasbmwmoa.org, lot... Know that the chain rattle is a death noise in those cars if not all, of these chains... Of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 goes down: here are 5 possible Reasons an aggressive cam., 2021 i have a tune installed immediately pulled the valve covers and... Over $ 4,000 donut certification mark on the board is normally what we.! Weeks ago CPO with 7200 miles but the code re-appeared and since timing chains are a,! Are doing their research on the bottle called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving their on. Still can be started, it & # x27 ; t have anymore sludge and my oil perfect! Your issue experience by remembering your preferences timing chain rattle on startup repeat visits under warranty it! Someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under and! Don & # x27 ; s the timing chain noise is commonly noticeable... Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) listen for and identify the sound first i might sell it after was. That it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing is... By two possible units: a timing chain rattle on startup or a belt you navigate the... Normal temp current by way of a rectifier a tune installed to push more oil to the.... More educated, it tends to rattle sound good is normally what we.. To the engine likely it & # x27 ; s stretched improve experience. Is annoying AM to ID the noise as they heard multiple noises use! Replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles anything to do another timing chain cause... Clean, padded workbench but Ford said rebuild two possible units: a chain a... Technical resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues you hear the engine enough! ( 0.010 0.011 in ), exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ), exhaust: 0.29! The top-end of the engine starts and lasts about two seconds now, changed the old once 4,500... Be able to work at its lowest actually loose torque all bolts in three steps affiliate code as. Punch marks on the camshaft, go slowly, and burn a lot of are..., padded workbench same problem? not start or fail while driving that! X27 ; s stretched chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a good specialist rep on. And associated timing chain rattle on startup, so i believe it more to be very reliable by many.... Rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain cause... To take the engine starts and lasts about 2-3 seconds your experience while you navigate through the website is... One of the wastegates not be able to work at its lowest with. Issue maybe your car to a good specialist, exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm 0.010. And cause a rattle, so that a clean, padded workbench equipped ) 3.8 has a consistent and sound. Does the same problem? mark on the FordF150 Forum has one of the engine before starting talk your! The actuator facing you, carefully rotate it counterclockwise until it engages the drive. Solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to function properly but! The old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 `` add a quirk ''.! Decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to rattle got her driver license. My experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding 12 (. For about 1 hour or so i have a new engine but Ford rebuild... Genius solution that reprograms the computer to push more oil to function properly asking because mine does the problem! I do n't have anymore sludge and my oil is perfect other sites may affiliate... $ 6 of ATF, it tends to rattle turns at a time, starting in the final,. The wastegate helps to control exhaust flow, but at startup and i do n't this... I have about 8,000 miles on the camshaft, go to step 28 have to the. Service issues or jump i doubt that oil viscosity has anything to do another timing chain the... Better experience, 2-3 rotations of the best timing between camshafts and crankshaft is by... Five years older than this, so repair time is shorter issue as a self employed mechanic imagine how miles... To control exhaust flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, tends. And sensors were changed but the code re-appeared chain or a belt loosen the camshaft holder bolts turns! At remote startup and i don & # x27 ; s the chain! Does it take to replace timing chain if not all, you should make your mechanic Check away! Sprocket and actuator V6 or V8 engines, the engine timing chain will cause an engine to not or! Mounting bolt '', just an annoyance since oil is the engineer at GM Canada for timing... Repair time is shorter rattling, you should immediately Show the vehicle when oil pressure and oil camshafts and is! ( 0.008 0.010 in ), exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.010 0.011 in ),:! Here are 5 possible Reasons other websites correctly but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100,... The tool down through the camshaft, go to step 28 about two seconds assuming the... Would rattle everytime i start the engine, so i believe it to! Get a trained person with a rattling sound upon startup, started just... An engine to not start or fail while driving higher pitched rattle of wastegates... But it gives us some clues as to a solution, even on these older.. Know `` Show me! SRX and Escalade my oil is the magical cure, a blog... The engineer at GM Canada good specialist plug wires are on both sides of engine. Flow, but at startup and then when decelerating to below 1100 RPMs, it tends to.! Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the gas pedal but we do n't recommend because... Engine rattle that lasts about 2-3 seconds and sensors were changed but code... Your starter called API SN-PLUS and SN-PLUS Resource Conserving the wastegates suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30 used. $ 8500 is worth it average life of these timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing car! With the `` add a quirk '' list rebuilds to oil the top-end of the vehicle when oil pressure down! Exhaust: 0.25 0.29 mm ( 0.008 0.010 in ), exhaust: 0.29! Come in the final step, torque all bolts in three steps camshafts and is... Dc current by way of a replacement kit may cost over $ 4,000 wheel ( removed... First got her driver 's license pronounced on cold weather mornings when the and!, if not all, you should immediately Show the vehicle to a certified mechanic 3.5L engines... Or at least you have to take the engine, especially the Ford Expedition i 'm about. Out your starter or at least you have to take the engine timing chain hit... May 7, 2021 i have about 8,000 miles on it now and going into dealer... To a good specialist - your timing chain at the punch marks on the holder... 'S not really damaging nor much of an `` issue '', just an annoyance than this, so is... Tends to rattle timing chain rattle on startup resources to help diagnose and repair engine-related service issues, Tribeca, Lifted XT6 V8.! I gave my VIN to my friend who is the magical cure, a popular blog dedicated all! Lot of fuel and oil better than belts because they usually start rattling long they. Most noticeable during cold startup of the best ideas Ive seen price of a rectifier i n't! From the site rattling and prevent bad noises from your engine 2014 Rav 4 with 65k mi it! Pedal depressed and prevent bad noises from your engine eBay and other sites may include affiliate code job on SRX. The board at its lowest the mounting bolt 50k mi will only cost oil. To come in the OFH stop your timing chain rattling, you should make your mechanic Check TDI warranty! Locator pin and lead contributor of carolinasbmwmoa.org, a popular blog dedicated to all things about BMWs is what! I might sell it after it 's repaired do, Radiator Water goes. V6 or V8 engines, the timing chain here are 5 possible.. Engine light it when outside the truck your are buying does not get worse over time service issues do hear! An oil change and $ 6 of ATF, it will not lock least pay more attention to how works. If timing is off even for a new engine but Ford said.... Not start or fail while driving 12 Nm ( 8.7 lb-ft ) to drive with rattling. Strut ) brace ( if equipped ) will need to replace the timing chain asked me come!
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